Bütün Raporlar
Cacao Raporlar
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
#22152: "Add Turn Undo"
rejected: Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor
22152
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| # | Status | Votes | Game | Type | Title | Last update |
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Detayli tanim
• Eğer varsa, lütfen ekranda gördüğünüz hata mesajını kopyalayın/yapıştırın.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Lütfen ne yapmak istediğini, ne yaptığını ve ne olduğunu açıkla.
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Lütfen görüntülenen metni kendi diliniz yerine İngilizce olarak kopyalayın/yapıştırın. Bu hatanın bir ekran görüntüsüne sahipseniz (iyi uygulama), onu yüklemek ve bağlantıyı buraya kopyalamak / yapıştırmak için Imgur.com kullanabilirsiniz.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Bu metin çeviri sisteminde mevcut mu? Evet ise 24 saatten fazla bir süredir tercüme edildi mi?
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Lütfen önerinizi tam ve net olarak açıklayın, böylece ne demek istediğinizi mümkün olduğunca kolay anlayabiliriz.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Engellendiğinizde ekranda ne belirdi (Boş ekran? Oyun arayüzünün bir parçası mı? Hata mesajı?)
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Kuralların hangi kısmına BGA adaptasyonu tarafından saygı gösterilmedi
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Kural ihlali oyun tekrarında görünür mü? Eğer evet ise, hangi hareket numarası?
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Hangi oyun aksiyonu yapmak istedin?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Bu oyun eylemini tetiklemek için ne yapmaya çalışıyorsun?
• Bunu yapmaya çalıştığınızda ne oldu (hata mesajı, oyun durum çubuğu mesajı, ...)?
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Oyunun hangi aşamasında sorun oluştu (mevcut oyun talimatı neydi)?
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Bir oyun kurmaya çalıştığınızda ne oldu (hata mesajı, oyun durum çubuğu mesajı, ...)?
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Lütfen görüntü sorununu açıklayın. Bu hatanın bir ekran görüntüsüne sahipseniz (iyi uygulama), onu yüklemek ve bağlantıyı buraya kopyalamak / yapıştırmak için Imgur.com kullanabilirsiniz.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Lütfen görüntülenen metni kendi diliniz yerine İngilizce olarak kopyalayın/yapıştırın. Bu hatanın bir ekran görüntüsüne sahipseniz (iyi uygulama), onu yüklemek ve bağlantıyı buraya kopyalamak / yapıştırmak için Imgur.com kullanabilirsiniz.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Bu metin çeviri sisteminde mevcut mu? Evet ise 24 saatten fazla bir süredir tercüme edildi mi?
• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
• Lütfen önerinizi tam ve net olarak açıklayın, böylece ne demek istediğinizi mümkün olduğunca kolay anlayabiliriz.
I think an turn undo feature would be helpful. I have accidentally tapped the wrong bubble and tried to sell cacao before I harvested it. Teotihuacan has it as a option the can be turned for the players that want it or left off for those that do not want it. /this seems like a good solution for a feature that only some players may want.• Hangi browseri kullaniyorsun?
Mozilla v5
Rapor geçmişi
Ağu 4 th 2020 23:13 • DarkBeerMike • Bu öneri henüz geliştiriciler tarafından analiz edilmedi:
optional undo
Ağu 5 th 2020 21:34 • DarkBeerMike • Bu öneri henüz geliştiriciler tarafından analiz edilmedi:
Consider a checkbox to enable/disable the undo feature. I want it, but other players may feel differently.
Ağu 8 th 2020 20:23 • Aeneas90 • Bu öneri henüz geliştiriciler tarafından analiz edilmedi:
Agreed. Undo should be mandatory for all games if hidden information isnt revealed.
Ağu 9 th 2020 9:33 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
I understand your request.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
But "As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves." (en.doc.boardgamearena.com/BGA_Undo_policy)
It's the first time I program a game : I don't want to complexify the code at this time.
Maybe for a futur release...
Meanwhile, a refresh (F5) seems to be a solution.
Ağu 9 th 2020 16:35 • Aeneas90 • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
Rejected the most upvoted issue because "its my first time and its too hard" doesnt fill me with confidence here. Perhaps see if there's a more experienced dev that can assist.
Ağu 9 th 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
I correct my point of view : it's not "to hard", but "too dangerous".
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
I don't want to loose control of the programming by implementing a not recommended functionnality.
But I keep in mind this request : I hope that players don't expect a 100% perfect game in the first release.
Ağu 10 th 2020 5:57 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
The request #22149 ask to change worker tile place on the board, then confirm.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
An UNDO would be easy to program for this state.
But an UNDO on tile actions is very inconvinient : on each action click, animations are launched, scores are updated, notifications are written, database is updated and all players view action in real time.
Ağu 14 th 2020 0:54 • MoonGoyal • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
I agree. Many games need this feature
Ağu 14 th 2020 13:59 • paramesis • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
An Undo action or confirm step is very frequently requested for adaptations where it doesn't exist, and I frequently see developers lean on the guidelines as an authoritative answer to every situation. Any experienced designer will tell you there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all answer. The entire intent of guidelines is to make better adaptations, and it is on the developer to decide where that line is.
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Are players having to click confirm buttons too many times?
Are players intentionally playing bad moves or moving pieces around in order to "think"?
Are players frustrated that the interface wouldn't let them take the turn that they wanted to take because they made one misclick? (definitely sounds like the case here).
Ağu 14 th 2020 16:46 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bu öneri hakkında daha fazla bilgi istiyor.:
Hello Paramesis.
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Imagine that I have four jungle actions to carry out around my worker tile 1-1-1-1 :
- Get 2 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 2 gold
- Get 1 cacao
- Sale 1 cacao for 4 gold
I can click on any action in any order. Each action update score and notify other players about what's happen.
How the undo must be managed ?
If I get 2 cacao, sale 1 for 2 gold... oh no, mistake, I wanted sale for 4 gold -> Undo.
Then, Undo become available for my first action too ?
What others players see ? Gold back to the tile and score decrease ?
Ağu 14 th 2020 17:16 • paramesis • Geliştiriciler bu öneri hakkında daha fazla bilgi istiyor.:
There are a few ways you could go about this, but the simplest to implement and the one I would recommend would be database undo.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
en.doc.boardgamearena.com/Main_game_logic:_yourgamename.game.php#Undo_moves
This would undo your entire turn. Canceled notification log items would disappear and there would only be one item saying "<player> cancels their move". The guidelines do mention that this is a heavy-handed solution because it saves and restores the entire table's data, but it is consistent with how many other games are implementing undo.
A more difficult to implement alternative would be an incremental undo ("player undoes worker action"). This would require storing individual actions taken this turn in the database in some way and creating a coherent way to represent undo on the client side. This is how I implemented incremental undo for tile placement in Off the Rails, but it does have the disadvantage you mention of creating a log entry for every action that is done and undone.
Ağu 15 th 2020 10:04 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
Thank you for this explanation.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
I note that an Undo for the whole turn of actions is a way, but :
- a confirm button is thus necessary at the end;
- this state of the game is in multi player mode : the undo database will be for all players ?
- I must fire notifications to remove cacao fruits in the player zone;
I'm considering this Undo for the future, when I'll be more "veteran" with BGA programming.
This is a big refactoring.
Ağu 15 th 2020 15:20 • paramesis • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
The basic implementation of database undo actually only requires a few lines of code.
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
$this->undoSavePoint(); at the beginning of a single player's turn, an undo button added to the action bar (possibly with a modal confirmation), an undo action added to action.php and added as a possible action to the state, and $this->undoRestorePoint(); if the user takes the undo action. See La Granja, Teotihuacan, and Off the Rails (mine) for publicly accessible precedents.
I do not believe an end turn button violates the intent of the BGA guidelines for multi-step turns. I have written a defense of this position on the forums here: boardgamearena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16770
Of course, every game is different, and if an end turn button feels like too much of an extra step, you could investigate the "request undo" checkbox precedent established in Teotihuacan. This would require refactoring to add an extra state, or to add an extra argument to each player action.
database undo is not supported in multiactiveplayer states. There can be only one persistent active player between any two points where undoSavePoint and undoRestorePoint are called. From my understanding of this game, it seems pretty rare that the multipleactiveplayer state would require multiple actions, so you'd probably be fine without an undo here. If it feels like it does need an Undo to be consistent, it might be better to cycle through players in a single action. La Granja has a game option for this, but that might be overkill here.
No notifications are necessary to restore the game state. undoRestorePoint automatically handles this :)
Ağu 15 th 2020 15:21 • paramesis • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
I forgot to add that rolling out database undo will break games in progress, so it's best to do that now while it's in Alpha.
Ağu 25 th 2020 15:58 • iris1 • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
Wish it was like in carcassonne 3 tiles in hand. Be able to change mind about which of the three tiles and try them out on the before you confirm. Then I guess the undo would be not necessary.
Eyl 14 th 2020 3:39 • razzinplant • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
An undo button when placing a tile would be nice so before you confirm placement you can choose a different tile.
Eyl 24 th 2020 10:32 • NexusHorizon • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile
Eyl 24 th 2020 11:49 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olduğu konusunda hemfikir ve üzerinde çalışmayı planlıyorlar:
Yes, and this iidea is here : boardgamearena.com/bug?id=24585
Eyl 28 th 2020 21:55 • ExtraPaul • Geliştiriciler bunun iyi bir fikir olmadığını veya maliyet/fayda oranının çok yüksek olduğunu düşünüyor:
"I think that would be enough and a more practical solution (for players and developer) to have the ability to change the worker tile just before choosing the jungle tile"
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
This is implement is this new release version 200928-2118.
I reject the idea to program an undo on a multi players state : this is overkill and reduces the flow of the game.
Bu rapora ekleme yap
Lütfen bu hatayı yeniden üretmek veya önerinizi anlamak için buraya alakalı görünen her şeyi ekleyin.:
- Başka bir masa ID / hareket ID
- F5 sorunu çözdü mü?
- Bu sorun cok mu oluyor ? Her zaman mi ? Tesadüfen mi ?
- Bu hatanın bir ekran görüntüsüne sahipseniz (iyi uygulama), onu yüklemek ve bağlantıyı buraya kopyalamak / yapıştırmak için Imgur.com kullanabilirsiniz.
Rapor statüsünü degistir:
bug?id=22152
